Every new player should have the same fighting chance

(this is the expanded version of a comment I posted in another thread):

The discord is going crazy right now: should new Looters (8000+) receive AGLD or not? And it’s already clear that no matter how we move forward, someone’s gonna be very angry… It is therefore important to take a step back and think about what lootproject wants to achieve - and make the best decision that helps further this goal. Well, we can obviously also argue about lootproject’s goal, but to be able to make an argument, I’m posting my vision here:

lootproject can become the first metaverse app for the masses, allowing everyone to create an avatar and enjoying a massive ecosystem of games, stories, social interactions, and economic interactions, all set in the expanded loot universe.

Having this goal in mind, it’s clear that derivatives have to always guarantee accessibility and equality so that potentially every human being on this planet can easily become a looter and have fun with everyone else on Ethereum.

That means: dhof’s newest move (loot 8000+) is exactly the right move (given the goal above); and now it’s the derivatives’ turn to follow suit, meaning, every new looter should also receive a 10k AGLD airdrop. This is the only way we can guarantee that every looter will have the same fighting chance in the ecosystem.

Obviously, this would be a big blow to the guys who are buying AGLD at high prices, but speculators who want to turn the lootproject into a cryptopunk-like collectible for the rich are the people we should NOT be considerate of; at least NOT if you share my vision of lootproject as outlined above.

What do you guys think?

One problem I see with my suggestion: people could start farming AGLD by minting new Loot. Could we somehow prevent this from happening?

Ideas posted below:

  1. smaller fixed drop to mLoot holders

  2. AGLD fork: 50% drop to Loot holders, 50% drop to mLoot holders (problem: mLoot is inflationary, so you can’t have a fixed supply as new mLoot will be minted forever)

  3. decreasing drop to mLoot holders (“mLoot minted earlier might be entitled to more AGLD airdrops while mLoot minted later will get very little”)

3 Likes

I’ll repost a comment of mine from another thread. In theory I agree with an airdrop to mLoot holders, but the details matter.

A simple “re-drop” of 10k to all mLoot wallets is too large of an inflationary event IMO - as much as we don’t want to talk about it, there are financial implications with diluting the supply so quickly after launch. Whiplash creates churn and divisions in a community. We have to keep this in mind moving forward.

I do feel that some sort of smaller inflationary drop to all mLoot holders (and potentially including Loot holders as well) will help to squash the us vs. them rhetoric that has popped up as a result of all of this. This would be a step toward incentivizing mLoot holders to become a part of the existing community and also align us to a track where some future inflationary measures can be introduced.

2 Likes

Too much inflation. I say fork the coin and give 50% to previous AGLD holders at their pro-rata and 50% to mLoot holders. That feels fair and will encourage the ecosystem to develop

1 Like

Strong disagree with needing to airdrop AGLD to new holders, especially 10k to each mloot. All this will do set a precedent that will destroy any confidence of the value of AGLD. No one actually holding AGLD will vote to be diluted this much.

The AGLD community will never agree to vote for the equivalent 10kAGLD of mloot. It can only fork AGLD and guarantee the interests of the original AGLD holders.

You’re right about giving the same fighting chance to all. I think just minting new AGLD for new players though is not the a good way to achieve that. In fact, it may just destroy a currency that has a chance to become an important building block of the game while also creating conflict within the current community.

So how do we go about making this fair for new players? I say give everyone the same fighting change, in time. And make that time worthwhile for them.

I’ve got one idea that works in two parts. It needs tweaking but its worth a shot:

  • Part 1: We introduce a tiered system for AGLD. The fork we introduce of AGLD creates an inflationary currency (say ASLV - Adventurers Silver) that follows the mLoot SC creation events.

100 ASLV for each mLoot owner, ~131M total supply. And ~25m new ASLV every year after that for new mLoot owners.

Slowing down sybil attacks: If an address already owns a Loot along with its mLoot, it can’t mint ASLV. If the wallet has several mLoot, it can only mint once.
Yes, yes, I know anyone can transfer their mLoots to virgin addresses and still claim ASLV that way. But the purpose is not to make it impossible (which arguably is impossible) to stop the same people from minting ASLV through different addresses, it is to make it a hassle for people to game the system.
More hassle introduced in part 2…

  • Part 2: A new round of AGLD (actual AGLD) is minted and put in a treasury. Say 100m now and 25m at the yearly mLoot issuance event.

That treasury distributes AGLD to mLoot holders that participate in mLoot exclusive game events such as, fighting world bosses that can be attacked only by mLoot owning addresses. On top of that those mLoot owners will also earn unique Boss Loot or Event Loot from the events they participate in (see for example On Chain World Boss (for Adventurers))

Same Sybil rules apply to mLoot events as for minting ASLV i.e mLoot exclusive events are only accessible to single mLoot holding (+ non-Loot holding) addresses. Once an address associated to a specific mLoot # reaches 5k AGLD (received from the AGLD Treasury), any address owning that specific mLoot # cannot participate in mLoot exclusive events anymore. Instead they can only participate to world events i.e events accessible to both Loot and mLoot owners.

Think of these events as a way of onboarding new players in a way thats fun, lucrative and gives a sense of “grind to get up to speed”. All good MMORPGs I’ve played have that. Newcomers will start creating groups and guilds to help each other in those exclusive events and farm events together until they can’t anymore.

This way AGLD does not get diluted in one single big event but slowly overtime and for the purpose of rewarding and recognising the participation of active new players and mLoot owners. I’d argue the value of AGLD would only increase because of that because it isn’t just sent to random addresses that own a mLoot, its sent and owned by addresses that have shown a willingness to actual play and participate to the game.

Quick last note regarding Part 1: we could also consider minting more than ~131M + 25m/y ASLV and instead add an extra 10% supply to each minting event that is dedicated to a treasury that feeds new mLoot owners the same way that the AGLD treasury does, ie. for active participation in mLoot game events.

What’s your rational for minting another 10k AGLD per every new looter? how is this giving new looters ‘a fighting chance’? We still have no real use for AGLD, and its role in the ecosystem is far from cemented, hell the role of anything in this ecosystem is far from cemented, it’s been 8 days.

We should have a sort of ‘Proof of Work’ that mints additional AGLD, if that is to be the predominant currency of the realm. Insofar as there are games, approved in game activities could mint new AGLD. Other ways could be governance participation, new creations.

Also just for the sake of timestamping this idea, I guarantee that if there is an additional airdrop or a fork, we will soon have another faction demanding the same thing again in the name of ‘fairness’.

1 Like

More on the Proof of Work idea. To the extent that certain activities require AGLD to be performed, that AGLD will be deposited into a contract (call it a DAO if you must), that contract can distribute back AGLD to performed of the PoW.

Agree. Have to recognize that a premium goes to Loot holders - otherwise we probably won’t get anywhere in terms of compromise.

Same chances for all!

Why Loot from the first droop should be treated differently? mLoot holders were already called 2nd class. Is this what you want in the metaverse? look at the current world around you it’s full of such an approach!

Shame on those who really coming with such ideas of treating other people differently like some of you is doing already here!

thanks for your detailed response! I love the idea of gamified rewards and yes, my (rushed) idea to drop 10k to each mLoot was premature thinking, but right now, I have lost overview of all different proposals (look at the forum homepage: so many new posts on this topic). I still don’t like the idea to introduce silver/copper, etc. It would create an almost medieval hierarchy that we don’t want in a metaverse game. or do you really think that a game where the gold holders can vote yes/no on proposals will be the game that attracts the masses?!? it’s a WOW 2.0, with Blizzard being AGLD.

An initial mloot drop that is reduced from the 10k number makes sense, while also dropping to additional $AGLD to Loot holders. Splitting the coin or creating a Silver coin is fascinating, but would obviously be a much longer build. Would be interesting to create a smart contract that let’s users upgrade 100 Silver for 1 Gold, or something similar.

Thanks for being so thoughtful on this. imo OG loot holders need to decide if holding OG loot means you have a permanent elevated position in the Loot hyperverse :wink: where you profit off mloot holders, or if OG loot is simply “legendary” status due to scarcity, but without massive advantages in either gameplay or economic value. The choice is yours, but it will set a gigantic precedent if the decision is to maintain wealth (accrued over ~7 days) or to create an environment that is welcoming and long term oriented.

Elitism at its finest. A lot of these people are taking care more about their “investments” than the community

One area we need to sort out (which I haven’t seen a solution to yet beyond KYC) is that ‘new players’ != ‘new wallets.’ Wallet ID is currently the only way we have to identify new people but it’s easy to spin up a new wallet.

I think the ‘proof of work’ (e.g. you completed X quests) could be a good start here, but it would need to reward a small enough amount that people aren’t incentivized to create new wallets over and over again and run the n00b quests to earn tons of AGLD.

I kind of like this idea. What if we also add time as a variable? It could be something like the older your account is the better rewards you get, that way early adopters get more rewards than new minted wallets. I think some kind of PoW doing quests to prove that you are active and also using how old your account is, it’s a good solution

I like where you’re headed here. There’s a divide between rich and poor, but I think there’s some potential to meritocratically bridge the divide in a fair way. Quests, Forum posts, Feature Development are all ways to do that. Aavegotchi has some interesting mechanics in this regard.